Five Foot Thick LL.B.

This is parental advisory event.

Five Foot Thick


CANCELED? See the Chief's Letter and our reply.

Almost everyone agrees that the City Code does not work. To write the new rules enter:

 The Forum For Revised Rules and Regulations

However, as we understand the Department  position, any person or entity wishing to use this club for a musical event must secure a Special Events Permit. Under normal circumstances, the permit request  must be made 30 days in advance of the event. Silas, the drummer for Five Foot Thick, pointed out that RAWK put on a show and were given the Special Events Permit on the day before their January 12th show.

Perhaps the Department could make the same allowance for folks who have made plans and payments for shows to occur within the next 30 days.

Tuesday, 14th of  January

Silas from 5' and Jerrmy from the Local Planet  are on a qwest for Special Events Permit. They are going to the Police station. In the mean time ....

A call from Deputy Chief Al Odenthal  625-4113. He advises us we do not have licence. He tells us he will send us a letter. He has read our email to Chief Bragdon.

Here is our note to him:

You told us that events the Club have caused a financial drain on the Department. You refer to events that happened at the Downtowner Motel and the event of  December 22 where undercover officers found underage people consuming alcohol within the Club.  There may be others.

Please give us in writing, an accounting of all calls to the Club from November 1999 to date. Copies of the police reports will be fine.

Please have accounting compare Department calls to other Cabaret Licensed Facilities within the same period of time. Tell us know how much more we cost the Department than the average Cabaret Licensed Facility. UHC is self assessing and will pay the difference.

You maintain that we are responsible for the actions of our Clients and we must be certain no laws are broken. We wish to comply. See the agreement form we require our Clients to sign. If you wish any revisions please advise.

His Response:
Mr. Spikard,

Chief Bragdon forwarded your message to me for review/response.  The issues
are more complex than merely how much (in dollars) the events at The Big
Dipper have "cost" during the period you referenced.  The ability to provide
service to other areas of the City of Spokane also are a serious concern as
are other considerations.  The comparisons to other Cabaret licenseholders
is not something that can easily be accomplished without significant staff
time as well as the additional "costing out" of dollar figures you mention.

Though you offer to compensate for additional costs is well-intentioned and
we appreciate your offer here, the mere dollar figure impacts do not fully
address the Police Department issues associated with your Cabaret license
application for this year.

If you have further questions or comments, please direct them to my desk.


Al Odenthal

Dear Al,

Sue and I were looking at the "Cabaret Code."
We could not help but laugh at how much money the city could be collecting.

The next time an officer pulls over a car and the driver has his car radio on he should be cited for failure to have a cabaret license. Then there's every retail shop,
elevator, tv set, clock radio, walkman in the city.

WOW at $300 a pop, there's no shortage of cash for the city. Start with the stores in the downtown mall. We can raise money for the garage.

Time for enforcement?   No and thank God for Departmental discretion.

It must be hell enforcing Draconian laws. Our hats are off to you and your sensibilities.

Article IV Cabarets
Listing 10.23.040 Dancing -- Definitions.

For the purposes of this chapter:

A. "Bar" is any bar or counter from which liquor is served to customers for consumption, including the space behind the bar where the liquor for sale is kept.
B. "Cabaret" is any room, place, or space in which music, singing, dancing, or other similar entertainment is permitted .
C. "Liquor" is any of the four varieties of liquor defined by the Washington State Liquor Act, Title 66 RCW.
D. "Service bar" is any bar upon which food or liquor is placed and from which it is then conveyed to customers seated at tables or in booths.

And thank you for allowing 5 foot thick to perform. How's it going with the EWU request?

Finally, you note that "mere dollar figure impacts do not fully address the Police Department issues." Other than the Chief's letter we have nothing in writing
concerning those issues. For reasons of self assessment, we need to know what they are.

Could you please reduce those issues to writing? Email's ok unless you want to reduce it to a hard copy.

Steve Spickard

Mr. Spikard,

The tone and content of your last message may be very pleasing to you (and
maybe others) but I found it insulting and self-serving.  If you have
substantive issues you would like to address, please feel free to convey
them.  If not, please refrain from further messages to this mailbox.

Other than Five Foot Thick and RAWK, the Police Department will not
entertain further "exceptions" to the licensing/permitting process.  There
is sufficient time before your next scheduled event(s) to convey to
promoters and others that your venue will not be in possession of a Cabaret
License and other arrangements should be made for events that would require
such a license.


Al Odenthal

Dear Al,

Sorry, we didn't mean to be insulting. We were simply trying to find the humor
in the situation and promote dialog. The Big Dipper is undergoing assessment of
our safety  policies.  If that means checking everyone's back pack at the door
so that we don't have a repeat of the events in question...then so be it.
We'll at least seriously discuss it's possibilities.  Please let us continue
bringing music and theatrical performances  to the culturally burgeoning and
financially struggling town that we call home.

Respectfully, Sue Marion

As for your contention that there is sufficient time. That's not true. If you
review our calendar we have booked a private party birthday party for the 25th
of January. Invitations are out, the contract is signed and money has been

I still need, in writing, a detailed account of the actions your department
contends we took that has resulted in the cancellation of the license.

Steve Spickard

Then a call from Jodie Joyce and another note to Al:

Dear Al,

Today I received a call from Jodie Joyce (217-****) from The Eastern Washington University Department of Urban and Regional Planning. Jodie said it was ok to call her.

My original contact was with Susan Witchel. That is the name on the list I gave to Chief Bragdon.

Jodie is calling on behalf of the Department to use the facility for a private event. She assures me, with rare
exceptions, the participants will be graduate students and of age. They wish to secure a banquet license and abide by all the rules therein.

They will enter the agreement as set forth at:

We wish to know what permits they will need to use the facility. The target date is now February 8th or the 15, depending on a decision by St. George's School.

Thank you,

Hi Al,

Thank you for your prompt response to the private party

We need to resolve another issue.

On the evening of January 12, 2002, Officer Conway came to
the Club to review the RAWK Show.

I invited Officer Conway to accompany me to our offices
where I introduced him to Paul Warden. Mr. Warden intends to
rent the Club for 18th day of February.

I did not know that Mr. Warden's visit would be at the same
time as Officer Conway's visit. But we thought it would be a
good place to start a dialog with the department.

Officer Conway interviewed our Client.

I reviewed the agreement with Mr. Warden and Officer Conway.
Officer Conway told me to "go about" our business. Mr.
Warden signed the agreement, paid a deposit and was given a
receipt. (His check has cleared.)

The revised agreement is more inclusive, as it specifies
what is expected of our Clients and calls for photo ID.

The date is entered on our calendar. Mr. Warden intends to
conduct the event.
I can send a copy of the agreement if you wish.

Given Officer Conway's instructions, may  Mr. Warden secure
a special permit?

Thank you,

Mr. Spickard, Ms. Marion,

Private parties where no admission is charged, where the contracting party
has control of the premises, and where alcohol, if it is made available is
NOT for sale may be permissible under a general business license providing
the contracting party secures the necessary permit/license from the
Washington State Liquor Board regarding the alcohol.

It remains the responsibility of the business license holder to take
reasonable care in ensuring that the appropriate permit/license is secured
and that adherence to the conditions of all statutes, ordinances and
applicable regulations are adhered to by the contracting party.  It is the
responsibility of the property holder that activities conducted thereon meet
all applicable laws and regulations and that permit/licenses have indeed
been secured.

Your private party may not require a cabaret license, but it remains your
responsibility to determine if one is required or not.

Al Odenthal

Want to support 5'? --- A note to Chief Bragdon?

A note to Deputy Chief Al Oenthal?

A note to Silas? Good Luck, Silas.


All ages


$10 at the door
First come first serve
Show subject to city approval of this agreement.

Questions, comments?